tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post8372792973672121048..comments2023-08-11T08:21:09.562-06:00Comments on A Very Remote Period Indeed: 60,000 year old decorated ostrich eggshell canteens from Diepkloof, South AfricaJulien Riel-Salvatorehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05344338385695383003noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-54806498459087182592010-03-10T11:32:48.451-07:002010-03-10T11:32:48.451-07:00"re: the notion of property, was emphasis her..."re: the notion of property, was emphasis here was really on group identity as opposed to individual ownership"...<br /><br />That makes sense, yes.<br /><br />However I doubt anyone is in condition to decide whether the pattern change responded to a change of the clan or tribe inhabiting the cave or a mere change on these identitarian markings along time because of "fashion" Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-40839108384429588162010-03-10T10:03:03.350-07:002010-03-10T10:03:03.350-07:00Maju -
re: the notion of property, was emphasis he...Maju -<br />re: the notion of property, was emphasis here was really on group identity as opposed to individual ownership , and markers of group identity are conspicuous - if sometimes expressed in rather subtle ways (e.g., projectile point shape) - in the material culture of forager groups. In that sense, I think that complete decorated eggs would actually fit in pretty well with what we know Julien Riel-Salvatorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05344338385695383003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-55057978925617199122010-03-10T09:52:32.317-07:002010-03-10T09:52:32.317-07:00Steve -
That's a good observation... I'm n...Steve -<br />That's a good observation... I'm not exactly sure what to make of the changing complexity of the patterns incised on those eggshell containers. This may be mitigated by the presence of two other designs in the collections ('curved lines crossing a central line' and 'cross-hatching'), each identified on single fragments, but since the authors don't indicateJulien Riel-Salvatorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05344338385695383003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-66970531111386746742010-03-10T09:41:32.606-07:002010-03-10T09:41:32.606-07:00Maju -
re: beer, I wouldn't disagree with you,...Maju -<br />re: beer, I wouldn't disagree with you, it's certainly possible, and the eggs, especially is sealed at least part of the time, would provide good vessels in which to ferment various sugar-rich liquids. One way of testing this would be to look for residues on the inside of these ostrich eggshell fragments and, if some can be found, to try to characterize them chemically. Given Julien Riel-Salvatorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05344338385695383003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-21858524116231013472010-03-10T09:21:07.437-07:002010-03-10T09:21:07.437-07:00"Do you suppose this could be related to a le..."Do you suppose this could be related to a lessening of intensity of social interactions in this tradition between 60-55kya?"<br /><br />If you ask me, I don't know. I'm not satisfied with the "property" theory that Julien seems to suggest (individual property is generally non-existent among hunter-gatherers everywhere) but I can't really explain why the changed Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-17762176234660211472010-03-10T08:05:02.581-07:002010-03-10T08:05:02.581-07:00Seems to me that the earlier 'hatched band'...Seems to me that the earlier 'hatched band' motif is notably more representationally complex than the later 'subparallel lines' motif, particularly since the 'hatched band' is used in combination with actual parallel lines (as in B and I of the second plate). Do you suppose this could be related to a lessening of intensity of social interactions in this tradition between Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-68590617788698359302010-03-09T17:48:48.311-07:002010-03-09T17:48:48.311-07:00"which makes you wonder what other fluids peo..."which makes you wonder what other fluids people may have needed or wanted to carry around"<br /><br />First instinctive, jokingly, thought: booze, of course. <br /><br />Second, still fanciful, idea: well, beer is the typical African drink, .<br /><br />Third thought: wait a moment, weren't they collecting sorghum in Mozambique about that date? Sure they did, and when <a href="httpMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.com