tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post273921099670844529..comments2023-08-11T08:21:09.562-06:00Comments on A Very Remote Period Indeed: Who really killed Shanidar 3?Julien Riel-Salvatorehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05344338385695383003noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-47608084312589803612011-08-19T16:53:20.570-06:002011-08-19T16:53:20.570-06:00Onix -
the freak accident possibility has indeed b...Onix -<br />the freak accident possibility has indeed been considered, but the wound was inflicted at such an angle that it makes it very unlikely. <br /><br />Not sure what you're getting at exactly with the second part of your comment, but I can pretty much guarantee you that microliths are extremely rare if not missing altogether in that region at that time. <br /><br />JRSJulien Riel-Salvatorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05344338385695383003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-82666958409944151732011-07-27T18:56:14.540-06:002011-07-27T18:56:14.540-06:00julien 'some time to heal' needs explanati...julien 'some time to heal' needs explanation. a wound inflicted to kill would not typically be the kind of wound to statistically heal the most often. has the option of freak accidents been considered? if not for ritualistic, tribal (like war) reasons that 'elaborate' burrials are an expression of guilt or dismay (for example over a freak accident). beyond that i doubt that the onixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03063983314231972946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-77651369820874270482011-06-03T20:40:07.657-06:002011-06-03T20:40:07.657-06:00"it provides up a fascinating and heretofore ..."it provides up a fascinating and heretofore underappreciated glimpse into the range of interpersonal relations Neanderthals could have had with other Neanderthals. Given the tendency by many to see Neanderthal behavior has homogeneous and monotonous, emphasizing that their interactionswith others of their kind were occasionally violent to the point of being lethal contributes to showing terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-73502937044866102072011-05-31T16:42:16.260-06:002011-05-31T16:42:16.260-06:00Of course, even if one has evidence of intentional...Of course, even if one has evidence of intentional killing by another Neanderthal of a somewhat high status figure, one still can't tell if it was in war between tribes, if it was in a leadership contest or duel within a tribe, or if it was some sort of treacherous murder (think Julius Caesar), which have very different implications for the meaning of this in their society.<br /><br />Around Andrew Oh-Willekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537151821869153861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-68615230549635440402011-05-31T15:22:32.513-06:002011-05-31T15:22:32.513-06:00Maju -
yes, we disagree on this, but I think in a ...Maju -<br />yes, we disagree on this, but I think in a fairly healthy manner! Re: population genetics, we've discussed this before and I maintain that they provide only one piece of the puzzle, one that doesn't necessarily fit all that well with a lot of the archaeological evidence. The question then becomes one of trying to reconcile these disparate bodies of evidence, rather than to Julien Riel-Salvatorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05344338385695383003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-13601098447540485782011-05-31T15:10:49.652-06:002011-05-31T15:10:49.652-06:00Peni -
you're correct that we shouldn't ju...Peni -<br />you're correct that we shouldn't jump to conclusions about violence. The one thing that seems beyond dispute about Shanidar 3, however, seems to be that this was not an accidental impalement. Based on the angle and position of the wound, and the fact that it had some time to heal, the most logical conclusion seems to be that someone intentionally inflicted that wound on Julien Riel-Salvatorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05344338385695383003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-5721693789160717292011-05-31T05:52:08.600-06:002011-05-31T05:52:08.600-06:00There's no point getting tunnel vision about v...There's no point getting tunnel vision about violence, either. You don't need a shotgun to have a hunting accident. You can even concoct scenarios involving euthanasia, botched surgery, or human sacrifice, the plausibility of which will vary with the forensics involved.Peni R. Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01781761011389542245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-31292304457783605162011-05-30T23:47:51.797-06:002011-05-30T23:47:51.797-06:00Archaeologically only today that crucial region of...Archaeologically only today that crucial region of our ancestors' likely journeys has drawn enough attention. <br /><br />But this has come largely by the hand of population genetics, which already years ago (not so many but enough) had to conclude that most likely our species migrated along the Asian tropics before flowing back Westward into most of West Eurasia (the Neanderthal range). So Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-52012563656217201562011-05-30T22:54:02.244-06:002011-05-30T22:54:02.244-06:00Maju -
good point about the early human presence i...Maju -<br />good point about the early human presence in Arabia and the Persian Gulf. That said, our knowledge of the record of the Arabian peninsula is still in its infancy, and at none of these sites do we have actual human remains to indicate whether we're dealing with early modern human dispersals or local archaic populations - on this, I firmly believe the artifacts can't tell us Julien Riel-Salvatorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05344338385695383003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22925401.post-73717094508796629662011-05-30T18:52:23.335-06:002011-05-30T18:52:23.335-06:00I am under the impression that they are totally mi...I am under the impression that they are totally missing important stuff regarding the likely presence of H. sapiens in Arabia Peninsula (<a href="http://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/10261/1/RedSea_Bailey_Pre-Pub.pdf" rel="nofollow">Bailey 2009</a>) and the Persian Gulf (<a href="http://bham.academia.edu/JeffreyRose/Papers/359690/New_Light_on_Human_Prehistory_in_the_Arabo-Persian_Gulf_Oasis" rel="Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.com